Process
Status Items Highlights Done See section below Claims None Questions None Output None
Highlights
Time 0:10:50
Capitalism’s Pillars
- Clara Mattei says we live in a capitalist economy.
- This economy works according to two pillars: wage labor and private command over investment.
- Governments maintain these pillars for the system to accumulate capital.
- Capital accumulation, often called economic growth, needs these pillars.
- Thus, government intervention is natural but skewed to protect capital and labor. Transcript: Clara Mattei You really point, John, your finger to the essence of it all, which is we live in a capitalist economy that by definition works according to two pillars, wage labor and private command Over investment. So what the governments are meant to do- Would that be considered capital and labor? Jon Stewart Is that sort of what we’re talking about? Clara Mattei Yes, exactly. Exactly. Capital and labor, right? The fact that people go work for a wage and others instead command investment in the sense of decide for all of us how to invest and where according to the logic of profit. So this by definition requires the governments to kind of maintain these pillars alive for the system to be able to accumulate as it should, right?
Time 0:15:18
Austerity Target
- Stimulus that comes under attack is usually demand-side stimulus, like SNAP benefits or Medicare, deemed too generous.
- Historically, interventions like the New Deal may have prevented larger socialist movements.
- When faced with fiscal responsibility, the immediate target is those with the least.
- James A. Robinson suggests this is because they are the least powerful and organized.
- Therefore, it’s politically easier to target those who are most vulnerable. Transcript: Clara Mattei So this whole thing about wages having to kind of be decreased in favor of price stability, this is a typically capitalist compromise that they can’t escape. Jon Stewart So this brings us to our discussion. I think we’ve sort of framed it out, which is this, because I think, Clara, you put it very well, that ultimately the stimulus that generally comes under attack is stimulus that occurs On the demand side as being too generous, whether it be SNAP benefits or Medicare or Medicaid. You know, James, you brought up the New Deal and intervening there. Well, that was in a global economic depression and in some ways might have staved off a larger socialist or communist revolution in this country. So, so James, why do you think it is that when we’re faced with this idea of fiscal responsibility, the thing we turn to generally first is those that have the least, what is it about that Politically that makes that the first target as opposed to offshore profits that aren’t brought back to the United States? Well, because they’re the least powerful and they’re the least organized. Wait, it’s that simple? That’s not rocket science, is it? Son of a bitch.
Time 0:30:09
Extractive Economic Policies
- Jon Stewart questions James A. Robinson about whether extractive economic policies have contributed to the economic volatility in countries like Colombia.
- Stewart suggests that these countries lacked the civic society that grew in the US because they were on the receiving end of mercantilism and colonialism.
- Robinson confirms that these countries were often organized for the benefit of elites.
- The US benefited from this organization. Transcript: Jon Stewart Do you think that’s because, you know, if we look at the political systems, you know, that the places that you’re talking about were in some respects on the receiving end of these extractive Economic policies? You know, you’re talking about places that don’t have the benefit of the kind of civic society that grew up because they were on the receiving end of our, whether it be mercantilism or Colonialism or those kinds of things. I don’t want to get into, you know, this idea that like, you know, we drained everybody to our benefit, but to some extent, doesn’t that explain a little bit of why those countries have Been more volatile in their economic? Yes, absolutely. James A. Robinson I mean, they’ve been organized. They’ve been organized for the benefit of of the elites. You know, I think United States, United States. I mean, we were the beneficiaries of a lot of that organization. Well, I
Time 0:32:49
Critique of Capitalism
- Clara Mattei challenges the idea that a more equal society can be combined with rapid economic growth and successful capitalism.
- Mattei stresses the need to understand the key features of the capitalist economic system.
- She argues that reducing economic issues to corrupt elites is an oversimplification.
- The global south is structurally dependent on the global north.
- Development in the global north relied on actively creating poverty in the global south, according to Mattei. Transcript: Clara Mattei Don’t think this ever happened. We have a very different rating of reality here, I think. The point is that I really do think we need to understand what are some key feature of our economic system, which is capitalism. And we can’t just reduce it all. Yes, everywhere. It’s global capitalism. And we can’t reduce it again all to, oh, they’re elites who are corrupt. That is not how it operates. And it’s really important to notice that the global south has been structurally dependent on the global north so that really you would not have development without the active creation Of poverty.
Time 0:41:33
Worker Inclusion in Corporate Profit
- Workers primarily benefit through wages, unlike corporate board members and stockholders who share in profits through various mechanisms.
- Jon Stewart questions why workers must create a movement to gain a share, rather than it being the status quo.
- He asks why workers aren’t included in stockholder and shareholder capitalism. Transcript: Jon Stewart Workers can only benefit through wages. Every now and again, they’ll get shares in a company or they’ll get certain things. Why is it that for workers, it’s required that it’s incumbent upon themselves to create a movement to then go into the, why isn’t it the status quo that they sit on those boards and that They share in the same way that somebody who’s on the board would share or somebody who’s a stockholder? Why do we have stockholder and
Time 0:42:45
Inseparability of Law and Political Economy
- Clara Mattei argues the legal system can’t be separated from the political economy.
- Capitalism encompasses political, legal, and economic elements that work together.
- Separating these elements ideologically suggests the economy isn’t the problem.
- Historically, capitalism emerged through actions like the enclosure of the commons, transforming land into a commodity appropriated by the elite, enabled by law.
- Without the law, a few control the means of production and get to make decisions about production and distribution.
- Capitalism requires a specific legal framework. Transcript: Clara Mattei Just want to say that the legal system is not separable from the political economy we’re discussing. And so I think this is really the difference and method here is that I’m trying to say that actually capitalism is an animal that has all of these elements to it, the political, the legal. They’re part of the economic. And to understand the economic, you can’t separate, right? So this separation is already for me very ideological because it tends to say, okay, so the problem is not the economy. It’s the problem is the law. The problem is this other thing. Well, the point is that, you know, the laws- They work together to suppress. Of course. Historically, how did capitalism come into being? With the enclosure of the commons. The enclosure in the commons is all about taking away subsistence means of people and transforming land into a commodity that then was appropriated by the elite. Without the law, this first step that you’re talking about, which is the fact that very few control the means of production and actually get to make decisions about how something is Produced and how it’s distributed, this requires a certain legal backing. There would be no capitalism without a specific
Time 0:49:44
Government’s Role in Capitalism
- Jon Stewart views capitalism as a destructive but innovative operating system.
- He argues government’s role is to mitigate the negative effects of capitalism.
- This includes addressing poverty and inequality.
- Clara Mattei highlights that half the world is in poverty, and 11% in the US, which challenges the notion of capitalism as a success story.
- Mattei stresses that private investment follows the logic of profit, forcing businesses to exploit more to survive.
- Stewart asks about the government’s role in addressing poverty. Transcript: Jon Stewart I guess I still look at it, and maybe this is, again, it’s sclerotic thinking, but I look at it as government’s job is to ameliorate and mitigate the natural tendencies of capital as destructive. How can government channel the good things of innovation and production while mitigating the disastrous effects of the poverty that it creates, the inequality that it creates, and All those other things. So that’s, does that resonate at all with you, Clara and James? And I’ll ask Clara first and then James. Yeah. Clara Mattei I mean, we are in an economy in which half of the world population is in poverty. So it’s very important to understand this is not exactly a success story. I’m talking more about the United States. And I think I’m not talking about it. And in the United States, we have 11% of the population poverty. So again, it’s not a success story. So we do need to think creatively. I absolutely think so. And two points is that I think the issue here is also that it’s not just about private investment. It’s also that private investment follows the logic of profit. And again, it’s not just about individuals, is that everyone is all, even the businesses are stuck in what political economy calls real competition in the sense that if they don’t exploit More, they don’t survive and they get eaten up by bigger fishes. Jon Stewart Right. They’re just chasing
Time 0:51:54
Government’s Role and Bottom-Up Pressure
- Governments don’t operate as technocratic do-gooders.
- Change requires pressure from below.
- Austerity is ultimately imposed by governments.
- Anything in favor of labor is often considered bad, while subsidizing private shareholders is the norm. Transcript: Clara Mattei Progress is the outcome of competition, if we want to call it progress. So, going to your question, I do think that governments don’t operate as technocratic kind of do-gooders. We need to pressure from below. And this is the whole conversation also that we’re having with the Free Forum for Real Economic Emancipation is to say the only way in which governments will change how they operate, Not through austerity, right?
Time 0:52:43
Market Dependence
- Austerity is the norm under capitalism because the system tends to increase market dependence.
- Increased market dependence keeps people working for wages by making them reliant on buying essentials like healthcare, food, and housing.
- This precarity and vulnerability are necessary conditions for wage labor.
- People need to understand how the system operates instead of blaming individuals in government to change the system. Transcript: Clara Mattei So, austerity is the norm. So, how do we do not austerity under capitalism? I would say it’s a tricky political balance because again, I think the tendency for the system is to go there exactly because you need to increase market dependence. And this is the very important point that I did not make, is that how do you keep people under conditions of wage labor? You have to increase market dependence, which means that in order to survive, you have to buy your own health insurance, buy your food, pay your rent, so that people become more precarious And more vulnerable.
Time 1:00:58
Economics Needs Humanity
- Economists play a role in society; knowledge is embedded and influenced by privilege.
- As privileged professors, economists often miss the difficulties people face.
- Economics should not be confined to academia but become more humane.
- Incorporate the lived experiences and social struggles of people into economic analysis. Transcript: Clara Mattei Think that economists play a role in society. It’s not about conspiracy. It’s about realizing that all knowledge is embedded and that people like us, we create knowledge, but we’re very privileged as professors with tenure. And we tend to not see a lot of the time what are the difficulties that people actually are living through. This is why I think economics needs to not just be based in academia and the high ivory towers. We need to bring back economics so that it becomes more humane. We need the experience of the lived experience of the social