Process
Status Items Highlights Done See section below Claims None Questions None Output None
Highlights
Time 0:06:40
Redefining Wealth
- John Fullerton’s Capital Institute explores the meaning of capital beyond financial terms.
- It considers various forms of capital, such as natural, social, relational, spiritual, reputational, and built capital.
- This broader perspective prompts questions about true value and the meaning of wealth for individuals and societies. Transcript: John Fullerton The very meaning of the word. So now many people talk about multiple capitals, natural capital, social capital, relational capital, spiritual capital, reputational capital, built capital. And so this was sort of a single word placeholder. Ellen McGirt Okay, so it’s another way of raising questions like, what do we really value? John Biewen And importantly, what does
Time 0:08:02
Regenerative Economics
- John Fullerton argues that the human economy is a living system.
- Humans and their tools comprise the human economy, and humans are undeniably living systems.
- The human economy exists within a larger living system, the biosphere.
- Therefore, long-term human sustainability requires aligning our economy with natural systems. Transcript: John Fullerton Is that the human economy is a living system. And we could have a debate about whether that’s a valid assumption. I would argue that the human economy is made up of human beings and their tools and technologies. And human beings are living systems. I don’t think that’s up for debate. And the human economy is embedded in what we now understand is a vast living system called the biosphere or Gaia. John Biewen The next premise, John says, is that there are patterns and principles in how living systems work. And finally, the third premise, that if we want to sustain ourselves for the long term, we must design our economy to align with natural systems. Ellen McGirt All right. That
Time 0:11:08
Farmers Market as Regenerative Economy
- John Fullerton, after leaving JP Morgan, became an impact investor in regenerative agriculture and permaculture projects.
- He gave the farmers market as an example of a regenerative economy.
- It’s not just about buying bread, but also about the relational context of meeting neighbors and chatting, which transforms the experience compared to shopping at Walmart. Transcript: John Biewen Let’s start with an example that’s easy to understand. Years ago, after he’d left J.P. Morgan, Fullerton became an impact investor, investing in regenerative agriculture or permaculture projects. Ellen McGirt Got it. Farming in ways that don’t pollute, don’t deplete the soil, and so on. John Biewen When I asked John for more examples, here’s what he said. And notice that for him, regeneration is not just about the environment. You know, one easy one for everyone to relate to is the farmer’s market. John Fullerton And all of the neat things about a farmer’s market, including getting outdoors and meeting your neighbors and chit-chatting about something that you had no intention to chit-chat About. So, you know, going to get bread is not just about the bread. So there’s this relational context of a farmer’s market that
Time 0:16:35
Jose Maria Arizmendiarrieta’s Vision for Mondragon
- Post-Spanish Civil War, Mondragon was deeply divided and impoverished.
- Jose Maria Arizmendiarrieta, a young priest, arrived in 1941 and believed in changing the region from the bottom up.
- He focused on education and work as tools for personal and societal transformation, aiming to create “a new person.” Transcript: Ander Etxeberria Situation was very difficult here. The town of Mondagon was the town that there were more people killed, not in combat, but because of the bad relation between neighbors. So imagine, before the war, some neighbors, they have bad relation. During the war, they are fighting in different sites. After the war, one of them is going to go to the police station and to say, this person is a communist, and they are going to kill that person. The Franco’s regime is going to kill that person. There were many people shot in the town of Mondragon. John Biewen All of Spain was in an economic crisis too. Poverty was deep and widespread, though the Mondragon region had an industrial history dating to medieval times, with iron mining and steel making. Ander Etxeberria Ariz Menireta was an action man. And at that time he’s going to say, the main problem is that the world is a disaster. The world is in crisis. So he said, we are going to change the world. When he says change the world, he means change the region. And if we want to change our region, we usually have two options. One, to change from the top to the bottom. And for that, we have to be here in the power. John Biewen But the priest and the people he most wanted to help in Mondragon had no power. Ander Etxeberria Or the other option is to change from the bottom up. And for that we have to change people. That was the option of Alime de Arrieta. He said, we are going to create a new person. And to create a new person, I have a tool. Education is a tool to change people. But I have not only one tool. I have two tools, education and work.
Time 0:19:27
You Are For The Farm
- In the Basque tradition, farms are not simply inherited.
- Instead, they are passed down with the understanding that the next generation is responsible for its care and improvement.
- The phrase used, “shou e cheraco,” translates to “you are for the farm,” emphasizing stewardship over ownership.
- Ander Etxeberria connects this tradition to the cooperative model, where the focus is on long-term sustainability and community benefit.
- This contrasts with the conventional capitalist view of ownership and profit. Transcript: Ander Etxeberria Born in a farm. And in the Basque tradition, it is very important, the farm. And when the farm is going to pass from one generation to another generation, we don’t say, my son, this is for you. But what we say is, in Basque, you are for the farm. It’s not the farm for you, but you are for the farm. You are going to take care of the farm. You are going to preserve.
Time 0:20:16
Mondragon Cooperatives’ Focus
- The Mondragon cooperatives prioritize creating and maintaining good quality jobs within their local community.
- Their goal is to generate wealth and well-being for the community, not just profit.
- This philosophy stems from the Basque tradition where people are seen as stewards of the land and community, responsible for its preservation and improvement for future generations. Transcript: Ander Etxeberria What? Creating job opportunities, creating good quality jobs. This is a kind of wellness or wealth generator. This is the cooperative. John Biewen This philosophy explains a lot about the Mondragon cooperatives. The whole point was to provide a lasting source of life and livelihood for people in this then very troubled valley. Think of John Fullerton’s regenerative economics principle, to honor place and community. There was a substantial employer in Mondragon in the 1940s and 50s, that locksmithing factory. But Aris Mendiarieta found it lacking. Ander Etxeberria In a conventional company, there are owners, they have all the power. Workers, they have no power. Aris Mendiarieta said, no, no, in the center of the company has to be not the capital, but people. John Biewen Not capital, but people. The priest tried to convince local business owners to empower workers, but they said, nah. So in 1956, Arismendi Arieta worked with a group of five young men who he’d helped to get trained as engineers, and together they founded the first cooperative company, making stoves. With the example set, more cooperatives sprouted year after year, and the companies formed symbiotic ties under the umbrella organization, the Mondragon Corporation. Seven decades later, there are dozens
Time 0:27:28
Mondragon Corporation’s Solidarity System
- The Mondragon Corporation supports its member cooperatives by pooling a portion of their profits.
- This system ensures that struggling cooperatives receive financial assistance from more successful ones, fostering a sense of solidarity.
- This ‘pooling of results’ has been practiced since 1965 and contributes to the overall stability and resilience of the Mondragon network.
- The Corporation also holds the network together and provides additional layers of security for the workers. Transcript: John Biewen Holds everything together and provides security for people. For one thing, as Ander explains, the corporation supports the cooperatives that had a down year. Ander Etxeberria Cooperatives that earn more money help cooperatives that earn less money. How? With money. Or cooperatives that earn money help cooperatives that lose money. This is something that we do every year. This is called pooling of results.
Time 0:27:28
Mondragon Corporation’s Support for Cooperatives
- The Mondragon Corporation provides crucial support and security for its member cooperatives.
- It supports struggling cooperatives through profit pooling, where profitable cooperatives help those with less or no profit.
- If a cooperative must reduce its workforce, workers have the right to work in another cooperative within the corporation.
- If no other work is available, workers have the right to receive training to improve their employability.
- As a last resort, workers can receive unemployment benefits for up to two years.
- Historically, no worker at Mondragon has ever exhausted this two-year benefit period. Transcript: John Biewen Holds everything together and provides security for people. For one thing, as Ander explains, the corporation supports the cooperatives that had a down year. Ander Etxeberria Cooperatives that earn more money help cooperatives that earn less money. How? With money. Or cooperatives that earn money help cooperatives that lose money. This is something that we do every year. This is called pooling of results. And we are doing this since 1965. The only group of companies that are friends in the world that are doing this. So we go together. John Biewen This pooling keeps the cooperatives going, as companies, up to a point. A few Mondragon cooperatives have gone out of business when folks decided they weren’t competitive anymore and weren’t going to be. Ellen McGirt So they will put a company to sleep. If that happens, do the workers at that co-op lose their jobs just like they would with any company? John Biewen No, they do not. And this is the truly unusual bit. A cooperative actually going under is very rare, but a Mondragon company having to cut its workforce somewhat because business is slow? Not so rare. What happens then? Ander Etxeberria If I’m a member of a cooperative and one day there is no work for me, I have the right to work in another cooperative.
Time 0:31:59
Worker Ownership at Mondragon
- In Mondragon cooperatives, workers are owners and have a vote on decisions that affect them, including pay and profit distribution.
- This contrasts with typical capitalist corporations where workers are seen as expenses and owners prioritize capital over workers.
- Mondragon’s structure ensures that no shareholders exist who aren’t also workers at the company.
- The salary limit at Mondragon has a 6:1 ratio between the highest and lowest paid worker (currently around 120,000 annually) while in US companies, this ratio can be closer to 300:1. Transcript: Ellen McGirt A big deal. And here’s another big deal. When workers own the company, that overturns a core feature of the usual capitalist arrangement, where workers are listed on the balance sheet as an expense, alongside other expenses Like equipment and the electric bill. And the people making decisions about that line item, whether to cut workers and how much to pay them, are the owners, or people reporting directly to the owners. John Biewen But in a cooperative, the workers are the owners with a vote on those decisions that affect them. And in the case of Mondragon, as we’ve said, there are no shareholders who are not workers at the companies. Ellen McGirt Which is huge. If I own shares in a typical capitalist corporation, I get more money, more profit if the workers are paid less and if there are fewer of them. And as a shareholder, I represent the capital in capitalism, which makes me the most powerful person in the equation, much more powerful than any worker. John Biewen And the more capital you own, the more powerful you are. Under capitalism, that is. But folks in the Mondragon Cooperatives say, uh-uh. We choose a fundamentally different setup. One more aspect of that different setup, the salary limit. Last time we heard about Triodos Bank, where the highest paid worker in the company makes just nine times the lowest paid employee. Well, at Mondragon, the maximum ratio is six to one. Now, the minimum salary at Mondragon Cooperatives, which is voted on by the workers, is currently 18,000 euros, about 400 a
Time 0:35:12
Mondragon’s Compromise
- Mondragon, known for its worker cooperatives and focus on equality, faces the challenge of competing in a global capitalist market.
- To remain competitive, some Mondragon cooperatives have subsidiaries in lower-wage countries like Mexico and China, employing around 10,000 workers.
- This practice, while seen as a necessary compromise to compete with corporations that outsource jobs, raises concerns about adhering to the cooperative model.
- Mondragon expresses a desire for subsidiary workers to become cooperative members, but acknowledges the difficulty of achieving this goal.
- This compromise highlights the tension between maintaining Mondragon’s values and surviving in a conventional capitalist system. Transcript: Ellen McGirt Really a different world, isn’t it, than the one most of us live in? But that brings up a question. What kind of challenges do folks at Mondragon face in doing business the way they do it, in a world dominated by conventional capitalism? They must have to make some compromises. John Biewen They do. The big one, and this does bring some criticism even from some people who really admire the Mondragon model, is this. Some of the Mondragon cooperatives have subsidiaries in other countries, in places like Germany and the United States, but also in low-wage countries like Mexico and China. More than 100 manufacturing plants that employ about 10,000 workers. Ellen McGirt Huh. So that’s a fraction of the total workforce. About 60,000 people work in the cooperatives in Spain. But still, how do folks at the Mondragon Corporation explain this? John Biewen Basically as a necessity, as they try to balance their cherished worker co-op model with the need to survive as businesses in the world as it is. For
Time 0:42:57
Composting Capital and Liberating Land
- In the East Bay Hills outside Oakland, a group of organizations is working to “compost capital” and “liberate land.”
- The area was a logging town in the 1860s, and all the old-growth trees were cut down in about six years.
- Desiree Fontenot, co-director of Movement Generation Justice and Ecology Project, is leading a walk through the 43-acre property.
- Movement Generation is a grassroots group based in the Bay Area that promotes a just transition to a regenerative economy.
- The property is part of the legacy of land theft through the Homestead Act of the 1860s. Transcript: Ellen McGirt Met up in the hills just outside of Oakland with a small group of people representing a cluster of organizations. Speaker 5 Watch out for the coyote poop. They’re very active. Ellen McGirt You could say these folks have joined forces to compost some capital. And as they would say, to liberate some land. Speaker 5 And this area was a logging town in the 1860s, so all the old growth here were like cut down in a matter of like six years. John Biewen Leading us on this walk is Desiree Fontenot, co-director of Movement Generation Justice and Ecology Project. Movement Generation, the MG Desiree referred to, is a grassroots group based in the Bay Area that works to promote a just transition from an extractive economy to what it calls a living, Or yes, regenerative, economy. Ellen McGirt The property we’re on is 43 acres of hilly land, much of it wooded.
Time 0:49:06
Philanthropy Reinvented
- Regan Pritzker, through her Catali Foundation, is going beyond traditional philanthropy by redistributing her family’s wealth.
- This involves partnering with groups like Justice Funders to support community-led projects and model a new economy.
- Dana Kawaoka-Chen of Justice Funders explains that conventional philanthropy is a product of capitalism and relies on inequity.
- Pritzker’s approach challenges this system by seeking to redistribute wealth extracted from land and labor and held by a few families.
- This model represents a more radical approach, moving away from standard charitable giving to a more transformative partnership. Transcript: Ellen McGirt Surface, this might sound like a typical charity story. A rich person donates money to a cause she believes in. But those involved in this collaboration say it’s something very different and much more radical. John Biewen To start with, Regan Pritzker and the Catali Foundation are not doing standard issue philanthropy, says Dana Kawaoka-Chen, who is also part of the entourage in the East Oakland Hills. Dana is co-executive director of Justice Funders, which partners with philanthropists to reimagine what they can do with their money. Ellen McGirt Philanthropy is currently a product of capitalism, right? Capitalism as a system is a system that requires inequity in order to proliferate. So capitalism and philanthropy are totally intertwined
Time 0:54:24
Small Steps, Big Change
- While acknowledging the vastness of the capitalist system, activists argue that small, localized actions can contribute to systemic change.
- Matteo Nube emphasizes that the scale of the challenge doesn’t necessitate equally large responses.
- Instead, numerous smaller projects, like land rematriation initiatives, can collectively challenge the dominant economic model.
- These interconnected efforts create a network of resistance, preparing for larger-scale transformation when the opportunity arises.
- This approach offers a practical path towards building a post-capitalist world through incremental, yet impactful, actions. Transcript: Ellen McGirt That’s a fair concern. But the folks we interviewed in the Bay Area have an answer. Matteo Nube, a co-director of Movement Generation, says just because the challenge is huge, that doesn’t mean each response needs to be. John Fullerton We are envisioning a world where there are a thousand or five thousand land rematuration projects happening within reach of each other. We need visionary projects working together in concert that are oppositional to the dominant economy that is killing us all.
Time 0:59:12
Democratic Economy
- Marjorie Kelly argues for a ‘democratic economy’ designed for people and planet to flourish.
- This goes beyond traditional socialism and focuses on power and ownership.
- It suggests a need for more worker-owned businesses.
- It shares similarities with John Fullerton’s ‘regenerative economy’, but emphasizes power dynamics. Transcript: Ellen McGirt The Democracy Collaborative, the phrase we like to use is a democratic economy. We live in a democratic society. We need a democratic economy. John Biewen Kelly spent decades as a business journalist promoting a more ethical brand of capitalism until she concluded that the system is inherently and hopelessly extractive and exploitative. Ellen McGirt I would definitely say I’m anti-capitalist. John Biewen She argues, by the way, that democratic economics, small d, of course, is a bigger and more contemporary idea than socialism. Ellen McGirt I admire socialism. I think there’s a lot there that we need. But I reject the idea that our choices are binary, that it’s either capitalism or socialism. So what does Marjorie mean by a democratic economy? John Biewen You know, it’s broadly consistent, I would say, with what John Fullerton and other folks mean by a regenerative economy. Ellen McGirt A democratic economy is designed for people and planet to flourish. That’s what